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Lynne
    05/04/06 at 08:00 PM
  Reply with quote#16

Oops, that's what I get for googling. Senator Kennedy's overview I listed above is from May 2005 (they keep changing the playing field). Maybe check this source for the compromise bill overview currently under consideration: http://www.immigrationforum.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=732#Info

Darren
    05/06/06 at 02:54 PM
  Reply with quote#17

Just a little personal tidbit.

 

Here is an aritcle I found online about my wife's family. Ladislado Borunda is my wife's gret-great-great grandfather and the last member of her direct ancestors to be born in Mexico. I don't know the legality of his immigration but I do know that I cherish my wife, my children and my grandchild ALL of whom are HIS descendants.

 

Still others of Mexican descent settled even earlier in the Sacramento Mountains. Some were employed as "hands" on Anglo ranches and orchards, for example, on the Circle Cross Ranch where Timberon is now located. Others squatted or homesteaded and developed their own farms in Fresnal, La Luz, and Laborcita canyons where they raised fruit and vegetables and cared for herds of goats. In some cases, lacking citizenship, they were able to obtain patents on their farms by buying them back from Anglos who took out the original homesteading papers on them after the Gadsden Purchase in 1853.

Perhaps the best preserved example of settlement by a Spanish-speaking family is the story of the Burundas, who moved to these mountains in the 1850s from the village of Isleta Sur near El Paso. Ladislado Burunda, his wife Leandra Calderon de Borunda, and their children Jesus, Francisco, Marcos, Porfiria, and maria, arrived by wagon and settled in Upper Laborcita Canyon, an area that was still roamed by a clan of Mescalero Apaches headed by a man named Domingo. Numerous run-ins occurred between the Borundas and these Apaches, who are reported to have gotten into the cornfields and even, on one occasion, to have stolen sopaipillas from the house! Threats to kill one another between Marcos Borunda and Domingo apparently came to nothing.

The family prospered on the good mountain soil. They grew their own fruit, vegetables, and wheat and raised cows and pigs for meat, supplemented by an occasional deer from the plentiful herds in the canyon. Occasionally they hauled vegetables to market for the cash, but they were otherwise quite self-sufficient. They made their own soap and candles, did their own blacksmithing, and the women were proficient at knitting and crocheting. As the children married and increased their numbers, much of the work was done communally. Two of the children reflect the importance placed upon education in the Borunda home - Maria became a teacher in the Garcia School, and Jesus, who had an extensive library in his home, was Justice of the Peace in La Luz from 1900 to 1905.

The Borundas obtained patents on their land in the 1880s. Some of the sons went to work as loggers higher in the Sacramentos, but the family remained together for the most part on their homestead until 1954. Many descendants of Ladislado and Leandro are still residents of the local area.

This transcript was provided by the Sacramento Mountain Historical Museum. The author is not known.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free; send these, the homeless tempest-tossed, to me; I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

 

Does this inscription on our statue of liberty still have true meaning?

 

Darren

Drew
    08/26/06 at 03:57 PM
  Reply with quote#18

Was perusing the older posts on the board and after re-reading this thread I thought I might offer some reflections.

 

I teach high school in KY and while we're no San Diego or anywhere in CA (I used to teach in NorCal) we do have our fair share of immigrant workers. In this small town where we had a demonstration last year by a KKK member over a student-led prayer at graduation, the Latinos tend to be very visible as they congregate downtown and pepper the local newspaper's arrest report. Hence the local provincialists can commonly be heard overstating "the Mexicans are taking over this town." Teaching US History allows me the opportunity to compare immigration reactions from the past and enter discussions with my students. While I try vigorously to not push an agenda or even allow my political beliefs enter the discussion, I do remind students that there are many benefits to the immigrant work being done.

 

It is an unbelievably frustrating situation for so many involved. Our tax money being used to subsidize those that do not pay tax doesn't seem fair. On the other hand, those who obtain fake or no social security numbers can contribute to the the system but receive no benefits. A student of mine apparently came here illegally but has worked hard to learn English and gain a diploma while spending 1000's of $$ to become legal. This made him more visible and alerted officials who have now served deportation papers. We're now hoping he can at least get a diploma before leaving.

 

I agree that most likely the best solution is to create an equitable economic and political situation so others are not pushed from their countries and pulled to ours. But therein lies a bit of a quandary, the Monroe Doctrine type of philosophy that suggests we (and others) should stay out of Latin American affairs. If we do get involved somehow are we possibly overstepping our bounds or even acting in our own best interest? As a country we get a bad reputation by intervening but can we honestly believe or hope that these situations will get better by themselves? Or can we just look to the future of our own economy and political situation and predict that it will decline, thereby creating that equity between nations and eliminating the pull factors that are bringing so many to our country?

 

One thing is certain, this "empire" will falter and fail. That is inevitable, things will change in time and to hope that they won't is foolish. The answer doesn't lie in designing ways to keep things the same but in creating mechanisms that allow for growth and change where people have the opportunity to succeed. Personally I think there will always be the underclass. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve the situation but just as their is life and death and miracles and tragedies so will there be people who struggle and don't succeed and suffer. In my classroom I can not keep students from failing, I can only provide opportunities to succeed. Is this a microcosm?

Jinho Choi
    08/30/06 at 04:55 AM
  Reply with quote#19

We should all welcome people from all points of the compass.  The opponents of immigration cite the moral philosopher Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations to justify their prejudice.  A thought that occurs is that those of the conservative persuasion who use Smith have not read him.

 

Adam Smith argues against restrictions on the movement of labour. “The policy of Europe, by obstructing the free circulation of labour and stock both from employment to employment, and from place to place, occasions in some cases a very inconvenient inequality . . ." Adam Smith, An Inquiry Into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, rev ed (1776; repr., New York: Random House, 1994) 155

Raven
    10/23/06 at 11:08 AM
  Reply with quote#20

Immigration is the problem of many 'successful' countries surrounded by pooere neighbours. South Africa, which is the most prosperous sub-Saharan (and arguably African) country gets more than its fair share of immigrants crossing the borders in search of a more prosperous life. However, the racism, discrimination, denigration, squalor and lack of respect that these people face is truly atrocious. I know a very kind, very smart man from the DRC who has a degree in Philosophy and was on his way to a second in journalism when civil war broke out in his country. He sought asylum in South Africa and spent the first year standing out on the street at night minding other peoples' cars. Now he's lucky to have found a job as a bartender to support his girlfriend and baby daughter.

Illegal immigrants aren't all uneducated gangsters and ruffians eager to maliciously 'exploit' a richer economy. If only they were given the opportunity to use their skills in a meaningful way (and not do all those dirty jobs we citizens are too good to do), I think that the last thing to happen would be a harming of the economy.

Legalising things - be it prostitution, marijuana or immigration - makes them much easier to regulate and allows the people involved to be better protected. I think that well-off middle class people everywhere are so afraid of losing some of their vaunted privileges to the benefit of fellow humans, and this state of affairs only hurts us in the long run. I am not American, but I find the US' instinctive reaction of quantifying everything according to its effect on the economy quite shocking and aloof; this seems even to be the defining standard for social support and ethical policies.

The 'great conquering powers' of Europe and America invaded, expolited, stole and destroyed native populations and natural resources; to this day, they keep poorer nations under their heel with laughable and exploitative 'free' trade agreements and national debts. They stripped countries of their dignity, interfered with their politics and, when they were done, left these nations floundering. To me, it seems almost justified that after all this, these countries are trying to regain a mite of what was taken from them. I feel that it's about time the generous hand of equality was extended to all.
jeremia
    06/17/09 at 11:07 PM
  Reply with quote#21

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    09/06/09 at 07:19 PM
  Reply with quote#22

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Ydluhzyh
    11/07/09 at 05:57 AM
  Reply with quote#23

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Cawgmujq
    11/15/09 at 11:24 AM
  Reply with quote#24

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